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' Thanks a million for shipping it so fast,This is Saturday and I've been working on the machine today and it has saved time and headache already and, didn't realize that you have to set the machine oil pressure. Somehting I didn't know but now I have the manual and new info is GREAT! What's really FREAKIN crazy is the exact same info I'm looking at has already been lightly underlined with pencil, like the previous owners were fixing the same thing on theirs, (probably).' 'Thanks so much for the amazing service, I will be most likely buying more manuals in the future'.
Alexander & Deckel Tool & Cutter Grinders email: Deckel S0 and S0E Tool & Cutter Grinders & Copies by Alexander as the 2-CGD Copies of the Maker's comprehensive Tool & Cutter Handbook Listed for many years as the Model SO, the Deckel tool & Cutter grinder has been widely cloned (many examples are now made in China). In the UK the best-known copy was Alexander, who produced a version to the same very high standard of the original (as well as a simplified version intended mainly for sharpening the D-bit cutters of the firm's well-known engraving machines). Taking a grinding wheel 4' in diameter by 2' wide with a 25/32' bore, the Deckel/Alexander SO was fitted with a 3-phase, 0.25 hp, 2800 rpm motor with the wheel running at around 5000 r.p.m.
The cutter to be sharpened was secured in, on early models, an unknown type of collet with a 16 mm shank that had a maximum capacity of 1/2' (12 mm). Later (and by far the more common type) used what the makers listed as a Schaublin Type 20 with a 5/8' capacity (17 mm). Hence, as the early collets are now unobtainable (though they can be specially made), before buying one of these machines (or ordering new collets) do check what the situation is, An early model without a complete set of collets, or with ones that are worn, will be very expensive to rectify - and should be far cheaper to buy than one fully equipped. A further problem arises with regard to the later collets sold around the world as the Type U2 and often listed as being: ' suitable for Alexander and Deckel grinders '. Owners report that these fit the Alexander version, but not the Deckel - or the threads, at least, are different. If you have direct experience of this situation and any difficulties it has caused, would be pleased to hear from you.
Collets were mounted in a housing (the index carrier) on top of a short-travel slide fitted with a vernier scale. The slide was fastened to the end of a swan-necked arm, mounted on a double-swivel base which itself was carried on a boss that could be slid along and rotated around a horizontal bar.
In addition the bar was finely adjustable 'left and right' by a micrometer screw with its dial and handwheel on the left-hand face of the machine. In the 1970s Deckel introduced the Model S0E (to run alongside the S0) an improved design but one that was operated in exactly the same way. Besides modern, sleeker line, modifications included: a built-in motor with an adjustable dust exhaust hood (it could be repositioned to allow wheel dressing); more complete guarding of the wheel; an axially moveable wheel spindle (under the control of a micrometer dial) that allowed precise wheel dressing and a telescopic, stub-mounted horizontal support bar - an arrangement which, with the removal of the end-support bracket, afforded much greater clearance around the job. One option available for the SOE was a bolt-on Optical Measuring Projector. This enabled the operator to view the profile of a cutter mounted in the holder and assess, from a scale, the various dimensions and angles.
The unit consisted of a housing to hold the optical system and a ground glass reticule on which rested a second reticule that could be rotated through 90°. The measuring projector could only be used on the index head carrier for which it was supplied - the image plane of the ground glass being adjusted so that the axis of the reticule coincided with the tilting axis of the index head and the distance from the object plane corresponded correctly to the magnification ratio. Deckel/Alexander Model S0 tool and cutter grinder.
The Deckel SO is the time-proven basic model. Its ingenious construction and design with nearly unlimited setting choices, make this grinder an indispensable machine necessary for every machining business. With the SO model, you can perform your daily grinding tasks with ease. The Deckel model SO has often been copied, but never equaled in terms of quality and reliability. The meticulous machining and assembly guarantee long-term precision, even after many years of rugged shop use. Deckel precision and quality, combined with proper machine maintenance, makes the model SO grinder an unbeatable investment.
I am going to the midwest on Tuesday for Thanksgiving and I'll be picking up a Deckel SO Grinder to get home to Arizona. Any thoughts on how I can break it down to get into checked luggage? I am thinking of removing the motor and putting into one bag, the Index Head Bracket Assembly into another, and the housing into a third, all bubble-wrapped, and pay the airline for any excess weight. One source shows the total weight of the machine is @70 lbs. Any counsel/advice would be welcome.
Thanks, John. Southwest (at least) has a limit of 50 lbs PER BAG, and you can check 3. Just make sure no single one exceeds 50 lbs. Remember they can destroy almost anything, and they will make you sign a waiver (for anything in a box) that says you are OK with them wrecking it. So pack well. I'm not sure UPS will take any better care of it. I once checked a 60 lb boat anchor as baggage.
They wanted to know if they would damage it. I said they couldn't hurt it, but it might hurt them. When it arrived at claim the box was almost completely destroyed.
The anchor was fine. I had packed it pretty well, banded ethylfoam around the tips etc. But the TSA had removed all of that when they searched it. On an airline with something a bit unusual, those guys are your biggest problem. They will unpack it, then repack it very carelessly. Southwest (at least) has a limit of 50 lbs PER BAG, and you can check 3. Just make sure no single one exceeds 50 lbs.
Remember they can destroy almost anything, and they will make you sign a waiver (for anything in a box) that says you are OK with them wrecking it. So pack well. I'm not sure UPS will take any better care of it. I once checked a 60 lb boat anchor as baggage. They wanted to know if they would damage it. I said they couldn't hurt it, but it might hurt them. When it arrived at claim the box was almost completely destroyed.
The anchor was fine. I had packed it pretty well, banded ethylfoam around the tips etc.
Deckel Cutter Grinder Belts
But the TSA had removed all of that when they searched it. On an airline with something a bit unusual, those guys are your biggest problem. They will unpack it, then repack it very carelessly.Thanks for the counsel, guys. I got it home okay except for one glitch when (somehow) my wife's flannel pajamas got separated from the pot metal pulley on the motor and the bag was obviously thrown resulting in one cheek of the pulley being cracked.
The main housing was in a yellow test equipment box made by Halliburton and surrounded by packing and it came through unscathed. The Skycap at the curb didn't seem to mind that the box was 61 lbs. Holiday spirit, I guess. Today I stopped by a machine shop and mentioned the intricate, sophisticated grinder I had just brought home and the owner said he had one that nobody knew how to operate -he wanted to sell it-so now I have an SOE in the back of my truck.
Anyone have or know where I can find a Manual/literature on the SOE that I can access? Thanks again for your kind suggestions. Ok since this subject has been opened i want to ask SO and SOE owners what they are using these machines for if anything. I understand the engraving world and the need to make and sharpen single lip cutters, but i see machine after machine on e-bay carrying nice prices. The market seems flooded with these but yet they continue to sell often for relatively high prices.
Once purchased what are users doing with these cute little machines? I don't own one and since i am not collecting there is little chance i will ever buy one unless a nice one falls into my hands.
I have a nice older Cincinnaciti no. 2 tool and cutter grinder that can sharpen end mills, taps, fourm cutters, tool bits and the like. It can also stand in a pinch as a cylindrical OD grinder. Think i paid about $300.00 for the lot and it works well. The space issue aside why would anyone buy an SO or SOE unless they were in the engraving business? Ross, I have a Taiwanese knockoff of the SOE that is decent quality. It cost m $500 on eBay.
I've mostly used it for touching up Criterion-style boring bars, lathe threading and grooving bits, and single-lip countersinks. I bought it when I had a Deckel GK-12 pantograph, which I since sold to Rimcanyon. As you know, I am a garage hacker (perhaps at th pro-am level), so pros like you might use single-lip grinders differently. I would much rather have a KO Lee or Cincy T&C grinder or similar (or a little surface grinder with some tool grinding attachments), but have no room for one. The Deckel style machine doesn't have enough movements (particularly in the wheelhead height) to do everything I want, and it is not very rigid.
I don't understand the high prices for the Deckel single-lip grinders on eBay. Seems irrational. I have an SOE with the optical attachment. I use it just like Rich does, as I have no other grinder. I could live with a taiwanese Knock-off, but I think those are like E900, and I paid 1500 for my SOE WITH the optical attachment, drill grinder attachment, collets, wheels aso.
I felt I needed SOME kind of grinder, as I was missing one dearly. I got the drill grinder attachment with mine too, so I even regrind my drills.
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I also re-sharpen simple end mills with it. I like it, but indeed would not normally shell out the prices that they bring on EBay sometimes (not always). I also need more practice.
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Its not so simple to use and probably can do way more then one may think. I'd love a fully equipped S1, the 'machine for users with a degree' (early customer comment).
I also am slack jawed at the prices for these things considering they seem to be common as dirt, plus there are so many copies of them, plus so many alternatives to them. If they were rare like a Avyac (French) drill grinder for examle, I could see it, but there are a gazzillon of them out there. FWIW, Wholesale Tool of all people sells an Asian knockoff of these and I'm thinking the price is only 350 bucks or so. I saw one in real life a couple of months ago and it looked ok to me. Uses R8 collets.dunno if that is good or bad.but it doesn't come with any collets on the theory everyone has some R8's lying around already.
A Deckel GK21 can do 3D copying in a ratio up to 1:7 if I remember correctly You can do that with a single lip radius cutter The radius of the feeler??? (the stud you touch the model with)and the radius of cutter have to have the same ratio as the one the machine is set for So if the machine is set up to copy in a 1:3 ratio and the cutter has a radius of 2 mm the feeler has to have a 6mm radius The SO and SOE can make the cutters with all different radius as welll as all the feelers That it is why it is populair for Deckel GK owners Peter. Ok since this subject has been opened i want to ask SO and SOE owners what they are using these machines for if anything. I understand the engraving world and the need to make and sharpen single lip cutters, but i see machine after machine on e-bay carrying nice prices. The market seems flooded with these but yet they continue to sell often for relatively high prices.
Once purchased what are users doing with these cute little machines? I don't own one and since i am not collecting there is little chance i will ever buy one unless a nice one falls into my hands. Licence avast pro.
I have a nice older Cincinnaciti no. 2 tool and cutter grinder that can sharpen end mills, taps, fourm cutters, tool bits and the like. It can also stand in a pinch as a cylindrical OD grinder. Think i paid about $300.00 for the lot and it works well. The space issue aside why would anyone buy an SO or SOE unless they were in the engraving business? Cheers RossThey sell well because the not in-the-know-bidders think there is more to them than single lip (if they bought all the un-findable accessories for them there is)and they will sharpen all their endmills.and fit on their worktop in the shed. Bet that's all they do with it, when they've got it home.let it sit on the worktop, whilst they realise as it slowly dawns on them.
It's not up to the job.then they re-appear a few months later on ebay. All the best.markj. I agree, the prices for a SO Deckel seems like pure crazy to me, especially since it really is made to do one thing. And nobody much does that thing anymore. Don, I got one of those WT jobs awhile back, and maybe its just a bad one.
I did the obligatory teardown, and things just got worse and worse. Some of the pieces (and there are a lot) looked like they were carved with a beer opener, and engineering out of a monkey calendar, and I am not a chinese basher! The motor was pretty good though. After putting as much time rebuilding it as scratch building a Quorn, it is now a pretty decent engraver grinder. It came with all those attachments, but to set it up, I think they'd be more useful as trotline weights. A single lip cutter won't cut as fast as a multi-lip cutter; but it will cut a whole lot faster an a no lip cutter.S You can easily build multi-step tools to enhance you productivity. You can cut off worn ends of end mills and repoint them.
You can also grind back the shanks for deeper cutting. Special cutters can really be a big help in though machining situations. I had a Spinner Grinder from Germany. Deckel owners said it looked a bit more sturdy than their machines. It's big advantage was it had a quick change wheel set up.
One lever popped the wheel off and another on. Pretty cool machine. It sold with my shop. If anyone's interested. How to get different voices for garmin gps.
I 'built' a spread sheet in Excel to calculate the setting angle when grinding an angled cutter. Just let me know. I can email it to you. It is a compound angle difficulty. Regards, Stan.
Single Lip Cutter Grinder
No problem If you can scan and send it to me, I'll translate it. BTW, I just bought a pretty nice Deckel S1 and I'd really like to find a manual for this machine. I have the commercial brochure and I'd be willing to scan it for a trade if someone's interested.I can recommend Alan's Deckel DVD. Here is a listing of the Deckel S1directory: deckel s1 broch2.pdf deckel s1 manual v1.pdf deckel s1 tool cabinet.pdf DeckelS1.txt S1sls260610-53pp4bottom.gif S1sls260610-53pp4top.gif S1sls260610-53pp5bottom.gif S1sls260610-53pp5top.gif S1sls260610-53pp6bottom.gif S1sls260610-53pp6top.gif S1sls260610-53pp7bottom.gif S1sls260610-53pp7top.gif thS1sls260610-53pp5bottom.gif thS1sls260610-53pp5top.gif thS1sls260610-53pp6top.gif All the S1 stuff is in English.
Well I just discovered that I already have the manual for the optical attachment. Thanks anyway for your offer Kees.
Let me know if you need a translation! I got the helix generator, the relieving device (?), the tilting socket for the headstock and of course, the tailstock with my S1 and several wheelholders as well. I think the heart of the system is the headstock with its built in drivetrain.
If you take a close look at it, the other parts and attachments are pretty simplistic. The helix generator is probably not the most convenient since the pitch of the helix depends of the diameter of a pulley. I own a french made VILAR T&C grinder on wich the helix pitch is set by a sine rule. No calculation, no pulley to turn on the lathe, just check the helix pitch with a lever indicator and adjust the sine bar til it reads '0' all along the flute. That's the system fond on the later Deckel S11. The DVD is a good idea! I already have the CD and this probably the good reason I was waiting for to upgrade!
Yoyo: Is your brochure named 'Outillages et Accessoires'? If so, I already have it. If not, could you please post a pic of the cover? PIctures of the machine to come.